Patagonia - Torres del Paine - Trip Planning Stream of Consciousness

Thought it might aid some future trekker if I just list things as we learn them. It is now early Dec 2008, and we have reservations into Santiago, Chile for March, and back home from Buenos Aires. Now we have to fill in the in between. We got the start and end locations from a friend who visited Chile and Argentina last year, though he wasn't trekking Torres del Paine.

Some other friends did do the trek about 15 years ago, so we started by borrowing all their old guide books and maps. Since then we got our own Lonely Planet Trekking in Patagonia, and a recent Torres del Paine Trekking Map.

Since I'm going to keep updating this post, to keep all the Patagonia info in one spot, and try to keep a change log here:
Change log:

12/14/16 *** very important*** all campsites now require advance reservations, for example at this date, all of January is already reserved. See Campsite Reservations post below for more details.

12/2014 *** important *** Any US citizen entering Argentina by any means, now needs to have PREPAID a reciprocity fee by credit card on a specific website. See this for details: embassyofargentina.us/embassyofargentina.us/en/consularsection/tramites/reciprocityfee.html
12/10/08 add remarks re southern hemisphere compass.
12/12/08 searching for gps info, maps for Garmin mapsource, Garmin etrex vista c, also currency and visa info.
12/20/08 info on facilities at each campsite on Torres del Paine circuit, update currency info.
1/7/09 fuel - Doite gas canisters available in Puenta Arenas - fit Snowpeak.
1/24/09 add web address of 2nd company that has refugios in Torres del Paine
2/8/09 add more electricity info, and add cell phone note - they don't work in park or P.N.
2/24/09 reminder check shots! several recommended. Also, update currency figures
3/1/09 site with all area bus schedules, rates www.torres-del-paine.co.uk , added visa reminder if Brazil is in your itinerary.
3/2/09 added one more map - best yet
3/28/09 *** trip report and revisions based on trip
4/6/09 *** more trip report mosquitos & jerky
1/11/10 *** we are going back again this year to complete the circuit - got stopped by weather last year - this time are using a different route to get there
11/14/12 - add entry about Susan's book Patagonia Chronicle
An aside, we've been getting some unattributed taking of blog content so inserting © 2009 backpack45.com
 Nov 2012 - Susan's book Patagonia Chronicle: On Foot in Torres del Paine is published. Her book description:

Patagonia Chronicle: On Foot in Torres del Paine enables readers to gain a sense of the rewards and challenges of travel south of the 40^th parallel in Chile and Argentina — Patagonia. Through journal entries, interviews, historic documents, and essays on subjects unique to the region, the reader samples the richness of the land and its peoples past and present. 

The book is for anyone contemplating a hike in Chile’s most famous park. Hikers en route to Torres del Paine will benefit from the detailed park information with descriptions of the accommodations, trekking routes, and trails as well as time and mileage charts, suggested itineraries, and a trail elevation profile.

However, Patagonia Chronicle is more than a trekking guide to that spectacular park: it casts a much larger net. Practical information is abundant. As such, this book will appeal not only to hikers, but also to travelers of all stripes. Besides Torres del Paine, readers discover the gateway towns that most Patagonian travelers enjoy exploring such as: Punta Arenas, Puerto Natales, and El Calafate. They visit Los Glaciares National Park — home of Perito Moreno Glacier and Mount Fitz Roy.

Travelers will also find information about touring Chile’s and Argentina’s more temperate Lake Districts and several other national parks inside and outside of Patagonia. They’ll learn about Ushuaia—the hub for Antarctic visits. And, because most travelers to Patagonia will spend time in Santiago or Buenos Aires on their way farther south, they’ll find the colorful chapters on those capital cities helpful.

Finally, an underlying question raised in the book: how to gauge the risks and confront the fears that must be overcome when seeking adventure in unknown territory can be helpful and inspiring to any adventurer. In Patagonia Chronicle we learn that the author wants to backpack the Torres del Paine back country circuit, but she knows that the trek can range from a moderate activity to a life-threatening one — depending on the extremely unpredictable weather. In life there are always demons to slay: how does one decide when to continue on and when to turn back?

Available on Amazon & Barnes and Noble. Your local bookseller can order from Ingram. Good reviews appreciated.

Campsite Reservations Update 12/14/16

TDP has gotten very popular, and instituted campsite reservations during the 2015-2016 season. At that time they were loosely enforced but reports are coming back from those hiking now (Dec 2016) that reservations are being checked and those without reservations are being forced to hike on (Camp Paso for example). The Fantastico Sur Reservations sites are Camping Central (the big one in the Las Torres area at the beginning of the W route, Camping Los Cuernos, Camping Serón, Camping Francés, Camping El Chileno. Vertice Camping Reservations handles Paine Grande, Grey, Dickson and Los Perros Camping. For Vertice, their website says reservations must be made at least 5 days ahead, and if it is less than 5 days, then visit their offices in Puerto Natales at Bulnes 100 and Bulnes 1202. Also, you must reserve the free CONAF campsites: Campo Italiano, Campo Paso and Campo Torres (that is the free one at foot of towers, not the one at Las Torres area.

December 2013 - found another excellent blog post on Torres del Paine - be sure to check it out. It complements this post and is much better organized: https://cariedaway.blogspot.com/2013/12/planning-your-trip-to-torres-del-paine.html

2011-2012 Fire News
1/1/12 starting this up again to get a handle on the fire damage. So far I have heard that Italiano has been burned,  Refugio Grey at least closed, as was Refugio Cuernos and Refugio
Affected area:
https://www.emol.com/noticias/nacional/2011/12/31/519538/infografia-areas-afectadas-por-el-incendio-en-torres-del-paine.html ,
1/9/12 - Hotel Las Torres has a good map showing closed and open areas:
https://www.lastorres.com/the-national-park-torres-del-paine-is-open-for-tourists/
It appears as if at the moment Refugio Grey is undamaged, but not open, and catamarans are not running. Cuernos is open, but you cannot go up the French Valley. This will change over the next few weeks.
Another better map of the fire damaged area:
https://www.reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/map_29.jpg
As of Jan 14, 2012 status by the eight fire sectors:
https://www.allchile.net/chileforum/topic7279-132.html#p83784
English language summary of 1/13/12 announcement of what trekking routes are open:
Government of Chile 1/13/12 announcement
1/31/12 According to VerticePatagonia, the company that runs Grey, Los Perros and Dickson, Grey refugio is open.
A TripAdvisor post item 7 says that W and O routes both opened the 27th, Grey refugio the 26th, and that the catamaran is operating.
Lonely Planet forum has even a more current discussion going.
2/3/12 - VerticePatagonia says that Paine Grande will be open Feb 6th
2/7/12 - Erratic Rock Hostel says park is requiring local guides for multiday trips:
https://www.erraticrock.com/programs/2012-fire-program/
2/8/12 Lonely Planet forum - person who is guide in Torres del Paine says no guide required. Later comment in same thread suggests that organized groups must have a local guide
https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=2145201&start=180

Post Update 1
I'm starting to find some websites. This one has maps:
https://www.torresdelpaine.com/ingles/secciones/02/a/mapas.asp#

David, an email contact who hiked it last March gave me these tips:

I used a msr whisperlite international stove that burns any type of fuel.
All the hardware stores in puerto natales (gateway town to torres de paine) sell white gas (called it bensina blanco...they use it to clean stuff...my stove never worked as good).
It is also possible to buy isobutane canisters in town [ed.note: Brand is Doite - from Korea]. Fuel should not be an issue. *** post trip note *** got canister in Punta Arenas, numerous stores sell in Puerto Natales. Also, at Las Torres alburge central - the big refugio that you first get to if entering from Laguna Armarga, they had canisters. ***
You can fly with a used fuel canister, just wash/air it out before you board the plane and don't have it in your carry on luggage.

A good faq website recommended by David:
https://www.erraticrock.com/index.php?action=6&menu=5

Transportation seems a little tricky. Argentina and Chile don't get along all that well. There are three towns you need to remember. Punta Arenas is the southernmost city to remember - the largest city in the area and a transportation hub for Chile. North of that is Puerto Natales the gateway town to Torres del Paine. North of Torres del Paine and Puerto Natales is El Calafate - the Argentina transportation hub. You fly from Santiago to Punta Arenas and bus from there to Puerto Natales, and bus into the park. From Argentina you can also fly in and out of Ushuaia or Rio Gallegos and fly from there to Punta Arenas.*** post trip *** there were daily buses from Puerto Natales to El Calafate. There were buses leaving Puerto Natales for Laguna Amarga, Pudeto and Administration at 7am and 14:30. ***

I found a site with all bus schedules and rates for the area, but don't know if it is accurate:
https://www.torres-del-paine.co.uk/transport_public.php

According to the fslodges.com , there are buses leaving Punta Arenas every one to two hours for Puerto Natales, starting around 7 am. Catch Buses Fernández at Armando Sanhueza 745, or Bus Pacheco at Avenida Colón 900 or Bus Sur at José Menéndez 565.

From Puerto Natales, buses leave for the park at 7:00 am and 2:30 pm - Buses Gomez at Arturo Prat 234, Buses JB at Arturo Prat 244 or Buses Turismo Maria Jose at Bulnes 386.

Buses Gomez site is: https://www.busesgomez.com/ When I last checked, they left Laguna Armarga for Puerto Natales at 15:00 and 19:45. You would catch a shuttle at Las Torres Refugio to connect at Laguna Armarga.

You can bus from Puerto Natales to El Calfate, and from there get a flight to Buenos Aires for about $148 if you pick the right day of week. $312 for wrong day. Our plane was full leaving, so book in advance. You can get a ticket from Punta Arenas to Buenos Aires, but it routes you thru Santiago and costs about $450. For Brazil flights: https://plane.lan.com/index-en-us.html

There is also a little Argentine town south of Punta Arenas - Ushuaia and people can fly in and out of there, to Buenos Aires, but about $346 on low price days.

*** 1/11/10 ***  our 2010 route - fly into Puerto Montt, stay at Puerto Salas a couple of days and then take the Navimag ferry to Puerto Natales. After that, same as last year.

Found another website, says 8 to 10 days for circuit and carry a weeks worth of food. We were planning on eating in refugios and carrying 3 days of food for between refugio camps. Have to resolve. *** post trip note *** our plan worked. The remote refugios only have radio communications so don't take credit cards. Las Torres refugio does take credit cards. ***

Also, circuit, where does it really go? My Torres del Paine Trekking Map shows trails going up the Valle Encantado and then staying just south of Lago Paine as the trail goes west. *** my map is correct *** All the online maps so far show the trail going just north of Lago Paine, and no trail up the Valle Encantado .

Finally found an online map that shows the same trails as my trekking map:

TDP official trekking map

This is another good trail map: i-needtoknow.com/paine/

BestHikes website  has a couple of excellent maps showing the region around Torres del Paine:



Compass question. Our friends who hiked it 15 years ago said that a special compass is needed for the southern hemisphere. 12/10/08 I've found that a northern compass is weighted to counterbalance the pull of the north magnetic pole. When you take that compass way south, the south end is pulled by the south magnetic pole, and both the pole and the counterbalance weights are pulling on the same end of the compass, making the tip drag when you hold it level. *** our Silva compass worked just fine ***

Post Update 2
Sources of info: backpacker magazine forums includes one in international travel - some detailed postings there: backpacker.com . Select community, then forums, then destinations, then international. Also found a reference to lonely planets forum for finding accommodations:
www.lonelyplanet.com. Find their Thorntree Forum, next South America, next Chile and/or Argentina. Recommendations and you can post questions.

More good web sites:
https://www.besthike.com/southamerica/chile/paine.html
https://www.i-needtoknow.com/paine/index.html
trip advisor Patagonia report

Post Update 3
Our Route. This 8 day route is based on the Lonely Planet route and the route in i-needtoknow.robmccharles.com/paine/routes .

Day 0 sleep in Puerto Natales.
Day 1 16.5 km Take bus to park gate at Laguna Amarga and take van shuttle from there to Las Torres & start counterclockwise hike from there. Hike to Puesto Serón and camp (in tent). If weather is good, at Las Torres, do side trip to towers and camp at Las Torres and shift schedule by 1 day. *** post trip note *** we arrived in good weather, hiked to Camp Chilean, setup camp, went on to towers and returned to Camp Chilean, next day just went to Las Torres, and day after that went to Seron. ***
Day 2 Puesto Serón to Refugio Lago Dickson 18.5 km.
Day 3 Refugio Lago Dickson to Campamento Los Perros 9 km *** this was a very long day - took us about 7 hours ***
Day 4 Campamento Los Perros to Campamento Paso 12 km - about 2100 ft up and 2400 ft descent. *** we didn't go over pass due to strong winds and weather - backtracked to Las Torres ***
Day 5 Campamento Paso to Refugio Grey 10 km
Day 6 Refugio Grey to Campamento Italiano est 16 km 900 ft ascent/descent.
side trip Valle del Francés est 8 km
Day 7 Campamento Italiano to Los Cuernos est 13 km
Day 8 Los Cuernos to Hosteria Las Torres est 11 km 600 ft up 300 ft down and side trip to the towers.
Day 9 sleep in Puerto Natales *** Stayed at Casa Cecilia - left extra bag there on the way to the park (we had several hours in Puerto Natales before catching the 2:30 bus to the park. ***

Post Update 12/12/08
Looking for maps and waypoints to load to my Garmin Etrex Vista C, and to Garmin Mapsource. Found a site with mapsource loads for Argentina in Spanish, but with a tutorial that has English comments on how to register, and download free maps. I followed their steps and downloaded the Argentina-Chile map, and it did show up in Mapsource, so, so far, so good. Problem: Argentina not too fond of Chile, so no data points on Chile side of map where Torres del Paine is. However, found a site with someone's 7 day gps route around Torres del Paine. Not quite our route but labels most of the camps and fills in the blanks on the above mapsource map. Also found a trail source called WikiLoc with several Torres del Paine gps routes, the one in the link almost exactly our route. So, looks as if worthwhile to take gps. Will still take/get compass just in case. *** post trip note *** gps worked but was totally unneeded. I just turned it on a few times to see what it said. There was an initial problem when I turned it on in Puenta Arenas the first time - couldn't find any satellites. I had to use the new location map function and point to Patagonia on the little map to get the satellite search to work. ***

Currency Info:
1000 Chilean Pesos is about $1.50 US Dollars
10 Argentine Pesos is about $3 US Dollars
Banks in both countries are open 9am to 2pm, Mon thru Fri
Credit cards and ATMs can be used in the cities
On the Torres del Paine circuit, cash only (I assume Chilean Pesos, but some sources imply that US Dollars ok). Dollars, euros, credit cards and pesos are accepted at large road accessible refugios *** the ones in the backcountry are cash only since they only communicate by radio.

Exchange bureaus are available in the four gateway towns near Torres del Paine: Punta Arenas, Puerto Natales, Calafate, Ushuaia, and rates are better than in banks.
Have enough cash for airport taxes, etc. Around $130 for US citizens to enter Chile, $18 airport international departure tax, $5 local.

Visas:
Visas not required for US citizens or Europeans for stays of less than 90 days. You will pay a visa reciprocity fee when you go into Chile of about $130 - what the US charges Brazil and Chile for visas. You only pay this if you enter Chile via the Santiago International Airport (thanks, Bystander). Also, Brazil does require a visa obtained in advance. Chile is very strict on food - check yes on organic box if you have any (thanks again, Bystander).

Electricity:
240 volts. You need the round 2 prong adaptor for Chile (3 if ground required), Argentina 2 round or two diagonal. Remember that you need a voltage converter, not just a plug adaptor if your appliance requires 110 volts. My camera battery charger will convert 240, but my cell phone charger will not. (note: cell phones for Chile and Argentina are GSM, but as far as I can find out, cell phones don't work in the park. No one has said they work in Puerto Natales though ATT's GSM coverage map shows a little pink spot on Puerto Natales. They do work in Punta Arenas. The coverage map doesn't show any Chile coverage north of the park till Coihaique.)

12/20/08
Misc note: in Chile, hot water faucet is on the right - applies to campground showers. *** post trip note - hot water on left where we stayed *** Figure on about $7000 Chilean pesos per camping night for two people, per Nadine's blog. However, fslodges.com rate chart says $5500 for breakfast, $7500 for lunch, $10000 for dinner. This is about $10, $14, $19 us dollars for 1 person. Camping with shower and toilet is $4000 per person. You have to pay $15,000 pesos (pesos required) to enter the park.
There is an english language online newspaper on Patagonia - patagoniablacksheep.com. I got the next couple items from its faqs.
Mice are sometimes a problem, so if you have an Ursack, bring it.
Get white gas at the pharmacies in Puerto Natales.
Accommodations and camping on our counterclockwise circuit.
Note: all spots have camping, ones with lodging require that the lodging be reserved in advance.
Campamento Serón - has a store, campground and showers. You can buy prepared food for breakfast and dinner according to the fslodges.com.
Campamento Lago Paine (Coiron) - just a free campground - can be windy, we don't plan to camp here.
Dixon, Grey and Los Perros are managed by verticepatagonia.cl/ingles
Refugio Lago Dickson - food, showers, camping, lodging if desired
Campamento Los Perros - food, cold showers, camping, lodging
Campamento Paso - free camping, a three sided shelter for cooking
Campamento Guardas - free camping - we don't plan to stay here
Refugio Grey - food, hot showers, campground, lodging if desired
Refugio Lago Pehoé - food, showers, campground, lodging - we will skip and go to next entry
Campamento Italiano - free campground
Los Cuernos - food, showers, campground, lodging
Hosteria Los Torres - food, showers, campground, lodging

2/12/09 Update
A good website for the entire Patagonia area - El Calafate, etc is interpatagonia.com .

3/28/09 Update - trip report

4/2/09 more trip notes


Wonderful country - better than expected. The winds were severe at times, a couple of times such that my wife could not stand up with a pack on, and I had to carry my pack thru the windy area and go back and get hers. At the staffed remote camps they have rental tents already set up, and some people were using those and carrying their own sleeping bag. Reserve the tents at least a day or two in advance. The bunk beds need to be reserved further in advance. Cash was a problem. We thought we had enough pesos, but meals, camping fees, etc. use it up fast.

Water - the refugios all had water from a faucet, and we drank it unfiltered with no problems. One day a storm knocked out the water at Seron, so I filtered muddy water from a stream using our ULA gravity filter.

Raingear - we both had Packas - rain parkas with sleeves, zippers, and a big hump for the backpack. Worked fine, but only protects to about the crotch. We also had rainpants. Also, I carried Seal Skinz waterproof socks.

Footwear - I wore Asics Gel Nimbus - my normal hiking backpacking shoe, with superfeet inserts. My wife, who normally also uses Gel Nimbuses, used her Lowa Renegade GTX boots. I think the running shoes were fine - possibly better than boots. They gave good traction on some rocky surfaces. We had three wet and rainy hiking days. On two of these I wore the full rain outfit including Sealskinz and stayed relatively warm and dry. On the third day, I had washed the rain pants and Sealskinz the night before, so just wore the Packa. Got quite wet up to the crotch, but wind continued after rain stopped, so by the time we reached camp both my pant and shoes were fairly dry, and I was warm while hiking, even though pants and shoes were wet. Legs have big muscles and generate a lot of heat.

Since we couldn't complete the circuit, we took a tour to see the Grey Glacier, etc. After that, we went to El Calafate, saw the Pedro Moreno Glacier, took a day trip to El Chalten to the Fitzroy area and a short hike, then to Buenos Aires for 3 days and home.

I will put a Patagonia page on our website backpack45.com at some point.


4/2/09 - Tents - We took a Stephensons Warmlite 2R and were quite happy with it. It setup fast, handled fierce winds without problems, and we stayed dry. Many others were having a problem with wet sleeping bags and other gear. One thing I should have done, and will do now, is coat the floor with some wide diagonal strips of seam sealer, as the silnylon floor was very slippery, and if we weren't on a level area, ended up on one side or the other by morning. Also, I ordered the tent with side window panels, and double zip door. It is a 4 season tent, but we only use it for severe conditions, so there is no value to the side windows - they are always closed, so just extra weight. The double zip door was nice. If I were ordering it again, I would also get double wall end panels. We got some condensation and blow thru on the end panels, because they were just a single layer of silnylon. For snow, the single panel would be ok, but for driving rain, double is better. Someone else had just a tarp, and cancelled the hiking part of their trip because the bag was too cold. I think taking a tarp is an extreme risk. The winds most nights would blow it away. I remember one night when I got up to pee. Of course, I kept my back to the wind, and by the time I finished, I had done a complete circle.

4/6/09 *** Some locations had quite a few mosquitos, not clouds of them, but bring deet, and spray clothes with Sawyers or equivalent. *** Jerky - we brought 9 lunches and 3 complete days of backpack food with us. That included jerky for lunches. The jerky was seized by Chile customs, so replaced with a stick of dried salami from a Chilean supermarket. ***

4/10/09 *** official conaf torres del paine map you get at the entrance station:

In researching for our 2010 trip, I discovered a site by the Moon guidebooks author for the Chile book. He has a good blog with an incredible list of Patagonia and South America links at the end of the blog: https://www.southernconetravel.com/